Catherine Roche (part two)

Sarah Brennan: 00:03

Hello, I'm Sarah Brennan, and welcome to Leader to Leader. This is the podcast series where leaders in the third sector talk about their experience of what it's really like to be a leader today. Today, we have Catherine Roche from Place2Be back with us. Catherine is the Chief Exec of Place2Be the brilliant national organisation providing mental health support in schools across the UK. Their support ranges from counselling, to family support and to professional training. Catherine is coming back to talk specifically about how they rose the challenges of the pandemic, and the enormous impact that COVID-19 had on children and on schools. I am really keen to ask you about this last year, because COVID-19 has been dramatic for everybody. But for Place2Be your work happens in schools and is face to face. And yet I know that you have adapted in the year, can you can you tell us a bit about how it hit you, how you thought again about what you can do, and how you adapted to the extraordinary circumstances.

Catherine Roche: 01:22

So it's been, it's been a year of huge change. That's probably an understatement. We'd literally just had our board meeting, I remember we left so the executive stayed behind as the board meeting had closed to have a discussion around "Okay, people, how are we going to do this?" As we all headed home, we had needed to go from an organisation that was so face to face and rooted in schools and the relationships relational face to face engagement with children, with schools with parents to move to absolutely embrace technology and to be able to work virtually blended hybrid, however, we want to call it all our new words. I think there was lots of things - our trustees for quite some time for about two, you know, two years before, we're saying come on Catherine, you've got to get yourself up that digital curve. So we had been making steps there was groundwork being laid when some of the thinking around art, for example, or training and some of the developments within the clinical work. But there's nothing like a global pandemic to remove barriers to change. And to get us all moving a little bit more quickly up the digital curve. So I think I'd go back to the schools we have followed step by step the kinds of transitions in and out of of locked down periods with our schools. So as our key there are partners and we work, it's our work is an absolute partnership with them. And so as schools have closed or opened for some of the children for all of the children and back into lockdown, we followed that pattern if you like. And we've adapted the service at each stage - right at the beginning, we maintained contact initially with the parents of children. So given the nature of our work there's a lot of detailed preparation and attention had to go into things like consent, safeguarding systems procedures to children, young people have have a quiet or young people have a quiet place where they could speak with their counsellor by the phone, you know, in those early stages as similarly for parents. So lots of detailed planning needed to go into all of that and which between our teams and our schools, I think together working hand in hand and the strength of the partnership you know, we have come through it and I think have adapted the service in different ways and also made some huge strides forward and learning - and transformed some of our products. So the obvious area is in our training for class teachers, which is a key element of Place2Be's work and our approach in schools, helping class teachers understand about buildings mental health. And there we took a programme that we had faced we had been delivering face to face had just got online, took it out to our schools, made it available and then we had three and a half thousand teachers access that in the summer term last year, that was our trial. And, you know, as an example, over two years previously, we had delivered training to around 1200 teachers in a face to face environment. And, you know, we thought that that was great, really effective programme, when we went from 1200, to three and a half thousand. And then again, working in partnership with, with Hive Learning, fantastic learning partner, who provide the platform and helped us with with all of that, we then having done three and a half thousand teachers seeing the impact, you know, we had 97% of teachers said they would recommend it to others. 90% said they were making a change in their practice, as a result of what they learned on the programme; really high rates of engagement with teachers, we then were able to set ourselves much more ambitious targets, as we had learned how to deliver the training online with the tutors online and all the rest. So yes, last week, we hit our target of reaching teachers and staff in which was 50,000. So since going out around the country, which is huge success.

Sarah Brennan: 06:24

That it seriously impressive. It really is.

Catherine Roche: 06:28

It's so we're so thrilled, so thrilled about that, and I'm so proud of the team that have, you know, that have had that ambition that have made that happen, and have the quality of results, and how much we've learned and how that's inspired and motivated more of our teams to stretch themselves if you like. The other thing, I think we learned a lot. And again, is we will we're taking forward is in our engagement with parents, because through the lockdown, we really had much more engagement with parents because our our initial telephone calls were with the parents of the children who were in the younger children that we were supporting. So it's really put in the spotlight that aspect of our work. And again, there's lots of developments, which are combining the face to face and the online that we are now bringing into play. So it's it's been it's been really positive. There's a lot of positive things we take from from how we've responded.

Sarah Brennan: 07:35

I mean, it sounds incredible, actually 50,000 teachers in the last year, I mean, all I can say is well done. I mean, that is really impressive. With the parents, I know that parents can be quite difficult to engage with, for all, you know, all sorts of reasons. So have you found that because of the way you've needed to engage with them to do any work with a child, that your relationship with parents has caused has been better has been greater engagement, that you're able to provide more support to them as well?

Catherine Roche: 08:12

Work and support and engagement with parents has for almost since the outset, but for many, many years has been is a key part we recognise is a key part of of our approach. And making a difference in the child's life at home is so so important. And especially for children with challenging behaviour, we know that working with a very much in partnership with their parents and building the parents' skills and understanding around boundaries, around attachment. All of that's crucial. So we've always placed emphasis on our teams being very visible in the school. So they'll often talk about the therapist on the wet Tuesday afternoon in the rain, who's hanging out at the school gates waiting for, you know, drop off pickup. And so so seeing stigma stigma in speaking with our... meeting with the Place2Be person in the school has always made us approachable. And I think then during the lockdown, having weekly calls with mum or dad has meant that we've been able to continue that engagement and I hear from our school project managers in the schools. That's something that they want to continue and do more of, because we know the impact that that can have. So it's again, that's a really positive thing.

Sarah Brennan: 09:39

And now that schools are opening again and you're back in schools, are any of the changes that you brought in last year, will any of those remain or would you just go back to to how it was? Well, is that is that has the norm been returned to?

Catherine Roche: 09:58

Well, we're where we have made positive developments. We're definitely not going back. So my, my new words are hybrid, I think I mentioned earlier, hybrid and blended. So we definitely want to take the good things and the things that have advanced us. But having a having a balance of, you know, real people face to face along with being able to use some of some of the, you know, the things that we like the foundation, the online foundation, I mean, that's going to be fantastic.

Sarah Brennan: 10:37

So in terms of your service delivery, you're sort of going to take the best sounds like the best from what's what you now have, but and in terms of staff, how have you found staff have responded to everything returning and schools opening up again? Has that been something for the organisation to consider as well, again? because I know in some organisation, they've talked about... actually there's been some anxiety about coming back into busy areas again, or that staff have got used to distance working, and are wondering whether there can be more of that. So are you bringing the hybrid into the ways of working with staff as well as how you're working with schools and children and parents,

Catherine Roche: 11:28

I think we're all working working through that and trying to figure out what's going to work best, none of us want to lose the, the positive elements, you know, from this last period, so it's fantastic example, I've been able to join our team meetings around the country. You know, I've been in the local Edinburgh team meeting, then pop across to the East Lancashire team meeting, and then over to Durham, you know, all in the same day. And it's been brilliant to be able to just dip in, see all of our school project managers have an open q&a session with the team - we've done regional town halls, you know, so many different things that are so much more accessible and easy. So we wouldn't want to lose that. But at the same time, there's nothing like that kind of human connection. So we don't want to, you know, completely forget, of course, we most certainly will not completely forget, you know, to go in and visit one of the schools in you know, Glasgow or wherever, where you get such a feel for the different environments in the different schools. And yeah, so I think, striking a balance as we come out of this..

Sarah Brennan: 12:51

So it's going to be interesting to see how the, how it all settles down in the in the longer term future maybe. And I also wonder with your staff team, did you need to provide additional support or additional contact of different ways to support them through these changes in the last year?

Catherine Roche: 13:12

Definitely, yes. I think like any organisation, staff wellbeing is something that has gone right up our the agenda, and we've all been incredibly mindful of, and it is about trying to maintain the human connection, especially when we've had younger, you know, younger members of staff who might be in shared accommodation, far from families, it's been tougher and tough. We've got lots of staff members who have young, young children who are juggling homeschooling, I was busy trying to figure that out myself as well. Let's, let's move swiftly along. But so we have put much more emphasis on just kind of thinking through what we have in place for staff well being. So we already had an EAP helpline, but it's things like different team members did, you know, had little check ins every morning a quick everybody jumped on Zoom to check in and say good morning, they've done great things like you know, virtual lunches and just kept coming up with different ideas of different things to do to keep to keep the connection between people.

Sarah Brennan: 14:30

And what about yourself, how did you handle the massive change and the challenges coming at you daily? Was there support available? Was there ways for you to brainstorm... ways for you to download or offload?

Catherine Roche: 14:49

Well, I have to say we have a fantastic Board of Trustees and an absolutely fantastic chair. And Simon has been tremendous throughout all of this period, as have all of our trustees, you know, being available, and either providing us space or providing us support when we needed that, you know, in the, with the right, you know, with the right balance of ensuring that everything was working well within the charity, but also that, you know, we had the kind of support and input that we needed. Keeping, maintaining the balance with home home family life, when you're, you know, you just live on a Zoom screen, you know, in a room in your house, along with the homeschooling. Yeah, that's challenging. I always made sure I was wearing my work shoes every day, that was my signal. I had my work shoes. And then in the evening, I changed my work shoes. And that that was my signal that was my transition and go back downstairs. But that transition between work and home, you know, had to find some way to make that.

Sarah Brennan: 16:03

I like it. I like the shoes. So, finally, Catherine, just before we close, what, what are your next steps? What what's next for you and for Place2Be do you think?

Catherine Roche: 16:15

Mental health and children's mental health has come full on the agenda, I think through this period, so that we've exciting plans where we're year two into a five year plan at Place2Be, so reaching more schools, applying what we've learned through using technology, all of that, we know we can make a much greater impact on the child's mental health workforce. And that area, that aspect of the work within Place2Be so we've so there's plenty for us to do if you like and I think as we come out of this just really engaging and being able to go and and instead of doing a virtual visit to school, being able to go and physically, you know, connect with some of our schools, locally in their communities and here, you know, the, the accents, the everything in the school, that that's definitely on the agenda.

Sarah Brennan: 17:18

Catherine, absolutely delightful to talk to you today. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your experiences and your knowledge of leadership and running an organisation so successfully. Thank you.

Catherine Roche: 17:33

Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Brennan: 17:36

That's it from this episode of leader to leader I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you did, please rate and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Next time I'll be talking to Shaks Ghosh. Shaks is the chief executive of Clore Social Leadership. Their mission is to support and develop leadership and social sector. So Jax is the perfect person to talk to about leading charities. I hope you join us. Until then, take care